platformengin-b0m7058 #platform-culture

During the conference I recall a speaker mentioning that they used a survey with engineering to better understand what they needed (re: platform development). I am interested in learning more about the nature of the survey as I plan to do the same within our engineering organization. If anyone can provide some insight it would be great.

George Sophy

06/22/2022, 5:12 PM

Hello all - we’re early on our transformation to a Platform Engineering Team and hoped to collaborate with others who have either build a cloud skills program for their teams or are interested in building a cloud skills program? I don’t have an idea of what the end-state looks like so I’m really starting from the beginning. I’d welcome some informed thoughts or ideas from the group how to approach this. Thanks in advance.

Cruise Hall

06/27/2022, 11:47 PM

Hello 👋 - I’m looking for extra perspective or prior art on an observation that I’ve only begun to put my finger on (but I’m confident I’m not the first): Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) who have the technical understanding required to design/implement a platform are so far removed from the experience of the novice that they overlook (or choose to forego) opportunities to reduce cognitive load. 9.5/10 times it’s a result of innocent ignorance (e.g. Releasing memory is an instinct, I forgot not everyone has that instinct) but in rare cases there’s an underlying hint arrogance (Surely our technical interview process will weed out so-called “engineers” who don't know how to manage memory). ^^ is this a thing? If so how do you build a culture that helps experts see their blind spots so that they can design better platforms for novices/“the rest of us”?

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JJ Tang

06/30/2022, 3:54 PM

This has been an interesting topic, are more incidents better? Feels counterintuitive but we think so. We shared our thoguhts but would love to hear your take! https://rootly.com/blog/why-more-incidents-are-better

Luca Galante

07/05/2022, 7:11 AM

PlatformCon 😛latformcon: track dedicated to people, internal buy-in and management. Check out

Day1▾

and

Day2▾

of the Platform Culture track from PlatformCon22.

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Nikhil Das Nomula

07/11/2022, 4:47 PM

Thank you for your talk @Galo Navarro!

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Kashmira Patel

07/14/2022, 2:10 AM

Hey tribe, Any tips/templates/thoughts on writing up the ROI of adopting an IDP? Thanks in advance!

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Johnny Dallas

07/18/2022, 8:45 PM

Hey all! Curious for those who have already developed an IDP or are in the process atm, what was the turning point that made you decide to embrace platform engineering?

Alex Fitzgerald

08/12/2022, 12:20 PM

How do you keep platform engineering teams balanced to enhance the DevOps culture in your organization? Because our platform engineering team seems to take over most of the platform's ownership while DevOps shakes off any responsibilities.

Jared Wolinsky

08/14/2022, 3:48 PM

I'm looking for some inspiration for a mission statement and principles for my platform org. Are there any resources that have some of them compiled already? Or is anyone willing to share theirs?

Aleix Morgadas

08/16/2022, 1:09 PM

I didn’t see anyone share this link yet, so, I do it 😄 I love this article from Camille Fournier. “The Product Culture Shift”, a recommended reading 👍 https://skamille.medium.com/the-product-culture-shift-441c31a3fdf1

Cruise Hall

08/16/2022, 9:45 PM

So good!! I wonder if Camille would speak at PlatformCon ‘23 🤔

Alex Fitzgerald

08/23/2022, 8:27 AM

Just this morning I read @Daniel Bryant's article Is Platform Engineering the New DevOps or SRE? I liked the part where he talks about paths: “_A core part of the paved platform engineering path is helping developers to have some understanding of the infrastructure and the roles of SREs and DevOps without necessarily making them do those jobs in whole themselves”._ I truly believe letting developers pick their preferred level of context is the way to go. Wondering how people here balance that with the more established you build it, you run it principle. What’s your view on it? 👐 Focusing on core competencies (shipping code) and abstracting the rest into golden paths 🤚 Taking full responsibility, we are 100% “you build it, you run it”

Freja

08/23/2022, 10:18 AM

Great article to help explain the need for platform and the differences across ways of working and responsibilities to non hands on keyboard people.

Benjamin Ernst

08/24/2022, 8:19 AM

Interesting read that I wanted to share with you guys: “The businesses that are achieving the greatest returns from their software investments are those willing to tackle entrenched cultural and structural barriers.” Made me wonder how people in this channel enable their teams?

Romaric Philogène

08/29/2022, 8:02 PM

Interesting read -> https://wagslane.dev/posts/no-one-does-devops/

Silvia Rhodes

09/01/2022, 2:19 PM

Question for developers that already use internal developer platforms in their companies. When your IDP was being built, were you asked to give feedback? Did you express your wants and needs for your better experience? I’m interested in the ratio of top-down and bottom-up companies’ cultures.

Hila F

09/07/2022, 9:49 PM

Hi all, ## Helping others, especially women, is a privilege ## Check out my posts in LinkedIn & Twitter about how joining one community has allowed me to get the opportunity to reach women in Africa and help them find their first role in the hi-tech industry. The event is THIS Friday and OPEN FOR ALL TO JOIN, so feel free to pass that along to whoever will find it useful. And of course will always appreciate likes/comments/shares 🙂

Damien Ricci

09/14/2022, 9:42 AM

Quite interesting article re top-down, bottom-up motion in other companies. I always thought top-down was the way, because we once tried bottom-up adoption with our platform customers (aka developers), but it caused the management to spend 3 months on never-ending meetings with discussions that lead to a dead end afterward. After various attempts to be democratic, our management made the top-down decision which… caused us another 6 months of DX adoption. Now everything works smoothly, but this whole experience, ambiguous opinions (e.x. as Sam Newman said: Ops buy, devs use) made me wonder which side has less negative consequences. I know there’s no one right answer, but I’d like to hear your opinions on it.

Brook Perry

09/14/2022, 2:29 PM

Hi there 👋 I’d love to speak with someone who has been thoughtful about their embedded model. (e.g., how they embed team members in engineering team sprints, sprint planning, retrospectives, etc.) Quick context: I help run the Engineering Enablement podcast and this ^ question has come up recently as something listeners want to learn about

Andre Marcelo-Tanner

09/26/2022, 1:03 AM

Wanted to get some thoughts on https://musings.martyn.berlin/internal-developer-platforms-idps-are-anti-devops I feel he has a point but then abstractions are there when the complexity grows. For me its about making the abstraction/platform observable, then developers can have real insight into how to own and operate their service. I feel I'm preaching to the choir here but wanted opinions on those who have abstracted away platforms, can teams still build it and own it?

Ashwin Thakur

09/26/2022, 10:03 AM

Hey everyone! Wanted to invite you to Sourcegraph Starship tomorrow 🚀 Join us on Sept 27th for the launch of Sourcegraph 4.0 with demos and dev chats about the future of code intelligence. Feel free to ping me a message if you have any questions about Sourcegraph or want to know more about what code intelligence means. There's more to code search than meets the eye. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/sourcegraph_join-us-on-sourcegraph-starship-on-septemb[…]519642742785-o45W?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

PRANESH ALLENA

09/28/2022, 4:56 AM

Hello Team, I'm trying to understand the real-time platform engineer project. I'm facing little issues with the project. Someone please help me?

Radosław Andrusiak

09/28/2022, 9:12 AM

Hi folks! We are going to build IDP as a separate platform team, but we want to develop our product according to developers needs. I’m wondering how to engage people in this process. Do you organise regular meetings or maybe collect feedback through a survey? I’m looking for inspiration. What is your experience? Maybe you have some blogs or books to recommend?

Sirina Azuki

09/29/2022, 11:43 AM

Hey all, I am an SRE for a B2B service, and I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find some useful websites or materials in terms of CUJ and SLI for B2B services. Most of the services that have SREs in Japan today are 2C services such as B2C, so I wanted to know if there is a different perspective in determining CUJ/SLI for B2B services.

Cruise Hall

10/05/2022, 1:35 AM

😅🤷‍♂️

https://youtu.be/yDcaRklX7q4▾

Chuck Carpenter

10/07/2022, 3:40 PM

@Luca Galante I think this slack is lacking in dancing emoji options…

Luca Galante

10/10/2022, 9:28 AM

@Chuck Carpenter how do you like it now? 😄 :duck_dance:

Ben G

10/17/2022, 3:34 PM

Hey all, today I started reading this article I found the other day and I was wondering if you agree on this formula that tells you how many engineers should be working on “the platform”? I find it personally quite interesting, since in my experience I worked in teams that were either too small or too big ... 😅

Kashmira Patel

10/20/2022, 5:28 PM

Hey all, Any tips, pointers, guidance on creating a RACI matrix for platform engineering. We are trying to figure out the boundaries around what platform team does vs what app dev team does. I have a broad idea, but if there is any detailed template or example available, I’d love to look at it

Title

Kashmira Patel

10/20/2022, 5:28 PM

Wayne Allan

10/20/2022, 10:46 PM

RACI between platform and customer facing teams is an interesting topic! Most of the companies I’ve worked for subscribe to the “build it you run it” idea which I’m a fan of to a point. In these same companies customer facing product teams often drown in work to adopt and upgrade platform tech, more often than not it gets done slow or not at all and the platform team doesn’t have the impact it need. A company I was at put a strict requirement for Customer facing teams to adopt everything which had a poor outcome - with teams splitting their time 20% customer facing work 80% platform adoption. As a platform team our ultimate goal is to give customer facing teams more bandwidth to try more ideas with customers. The more ideas they can try the more likely they are to succeed. Your RACI made to have a lot of nuance to it in some areas. For example in the scenario above I spun up an adoption team who were able to migrate 30 teams in roughly 9 months ad ease the burden of those teams. The adoption team had several approaches they would take with a team. 1. Educate and help them plan the work, 2. Educate and augment their team to do the work 3. Do the work for the team and educate the after. We had a set of guidelines to figure out which approach we took. I could talk for ages about this topic 😆 my suggestion is to be careful with RACI there’s a risk it establishes unrealistic obligation that never get met and cause more tension and work against the goals of what a platform team.

Kashmira Patel

10/21/2022, 6:50 AM

Yeah, we did approach 3 to find out the education after is not happening unless we put together a strict RACI 😄

of course not blaming anyone, but the situation is where no one has clear guidelines on who is responsible for what.

Shakeel Hussain

10/23/2022, 5:16 PM

@Ahsan

Wayne Allan

10/24/2022, 12:05 AM

I think a RACI per engagement model would be the right level of granularity. When we would run engagements we would have a kick off session and establish these expectations and explain the rationale as well a probe for anything risk that might make the engagement model in practical for the team we were helping. I would also make sure to set the expectation up the chain as well.

Kashmira Patel

10/24/2022, 12:08 AM

Thanks @Wayne Allan , this makes sense. We have a few different operational and support tasks where multiple teams are involved. Establishing and socializing when and how these teams are engaged so what I’m trying to establish

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