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# general
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Dennis Schwartz-Knap

05/26/2023, 4:00 PM
Hi all. Jumping off the question from earlier about ITSM and change management, I would really appreciate some feedback if there is any larger enterprises among us 🙂 The challenge that I have seen a couple of times now is that there is a tendency to have this blackbox IT organization that has got the responsibility to solely manage "all IT infrastructure" and they have used many many man-years to perfect that operating model. Though when platform teams from both k8s world, IPD and especially cloud comes with our "so called Cloud Operating model", then the 2 worlds clashes. My observations is mainly on questions like:
"In our operating model the VM team is the only team that can be responsible for everything around VMs. You are not allowed to deploy your own VM since you are not skilled enough to operate such a complex piece of infrastructure."
Sorry if it sounds condescending, but mostly this is the quote as those people that tells this story have spend the long time perfecting anything with Backup, monitoring, Cost and what-not around operating that piece of infrastructure. I would really like to get some help to speak with other enterprises (in the Euro zone preferably) how you taggle this Operating model change, and how you may have locked up the gothic knot of who is responsible for what in your cloud/k8s platforms.
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Randy Schneiderman

05/26/2023, 4:20 PM
Hi Dennis, i have experience in both worlds, enterprise (on-prem) ITILv3 companies but have transitioned to public cloud with agile. ITILv4 iirc eases alignment with DevOps/agile but as you mentioned, there are orgs that are stubborn in “their way”. Happy to discuss my experience with you and others.
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Dennis Schwartz-Knap

05/26/2023, 4:24 PM
I know it is a broad area, and currently in the euro zone it is weekend 🙂 - though could you give some hints for good weekend read?
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Liviu Constantinescu

05/27/2023, 7:03 AM
I find that anyone that old-school likely isn’t setting foot in the cloud very much, so you can draw the line there, and ensure you have what you need in the cloud environment… and let them do what they want with on-prem.
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Lavanya Bobba

05/28/2023, 9:56 PM
Hi Dennis , Change is always the tough and I have seen both sides of the coin. I would be happy to discuss further. As cloud has lot of benefits than onprem, it depends on whether we are looking at business applications or off shelf COTS applications
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Andrew Boyagi

05/28/2023, 10:55 PM
Hey @Dennis Schwartz-Knap - I actually wrote about this last week, I’d love to get your thoughts on this to see if it’s a similar experience: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andrewboyagi_breaking-the-mold-itil-and-devops-uniting[…]053270941697-3POP?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop
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Gielen

05/30/2023, 11:58 AM
Hi @Dennis Schwartz-Knap , I work with customers on exactly this challenge, in short and as i am sure you already know, Enterprises that make use Cloud (multi, hybrid, private or any) need to re-think/reformulate their operating model in order to modernize their approach. For Enterprises, specially the ones that want and need to be able to scale! reformulating their Op models is no longer 'an option' but a must. I wrote a bit about this here, not exactly but i did touch on op models and shared some considerations. https://medium.com/@g1elen/service-management-is-dead-c82940958434 Keys to a successful Op Model transformation: Product centricity, The people and their ability to adopt new ways of working, processes and a set up/structure that allows new ways of working (team topologies is great on this). The good news, this is happening everywhere (so im guessing is kept me in a job for a while) the bad news there is not one model that fits everyone because it is all dependent on org stack, strategy, requirements etc. so it is not a copy paste exercise, it needs strategizing. Happy to chat more,
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Randy Schneiderman

05/30/2023, 1:52 PM
I’ve seen two approaches, but only one formal and has the approach that will ease everyone on both sides. The lesser desired approach is to integrate the ITSM solution (bidirectionally) and create custom workflows in your agile for your changes. The workflow will have to ensure the process to implement changes aligns within the ITIL framework. The other approach is to start a Center of Excellence. Building and collaborating to create the various permutations of cloud services but adding the governance around the build blocks will allow for a smoother transition (on ITIL side).
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Andrew Boyagi

05/30/2023, 7:40 PM
@Randy Schneiderman using scorecards as a part of an internal developer platform helps to move the organization to a “governance by exception” model. Have you seen this before? Through automated scorecards the governance teams have visibility of all changes and follow up only on those that aren’t meeting expectations. I’ve also written about this before - can dig it up and share the link if you’re interested.
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Randy Schneiderman

05/30/2023, 7:46 PM
@Andrew Boyagi I have not seen, I would be interested to learn more, please forward when you have time
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Andrew Boyagi

05/30/2023, 10:22 PM
@Randy Schneiderman check this article under “Change management becomes the bottleneck” I’ve gone in to more detail during a few talks I’ve given, but this is a high level summary. We can chat more about it if you’re interested. I’d be interested in hearing your perspective. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-tame-software-sprawl-andrew-boyagi/
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