Hi all, we're also on the journey to shift our min...
# general
j
Hi all, we're also on the journey to shift our mindset and treat our Platform as a Product. Amongst other steps, one need is to produce a catalogue. What does your org use that works well? We want the catalogue to be assessable to Product Managers, Directors, Delivery Managers, not just Engineers. Ideally we can automatically pull a lot of the data from Backstage and surface it in somewhere like a Jira Service Portal?
k
Few years ago we have used Jira Insight for a view :) works pretty well
j
Is there a chance you can share a screenshot with me please @Krzysztof H., so that I can get an idea of how a good set up looks like?
k
Oh, it will be difficult :) it was 3 years ago in a bank, so even if I found it I would probably not be allowed to share :( but I pretty much memorize the data model and what we wanted to achieve (this is public as I’v already presented it on some meetups). I will be back from vacations at 12.02, you can dm me and we can talk :)
j
Great, thanks heaps in advance and enjoy your holidays 🌞
r
@Joanne Lung You can create a catalog in many ways, from backstage to using a tool like Port. The trick in my mind is to determine what you want to abstract away for each of the users/audiences you had mentioned, or else you risk flooding them with too much data. This can be done with a product mindset, RBAC and using different visualizations (and in some cases, scorecards)
k
If you want more than developers to use such repository, backstage may not be the best idea - we had also business users viewing systems and business capabilities relations in Jira Insight (and bs for devs only)
j
Hey @Roni Floman, you’re totally right we want to avoid overwhelming non-engineering users with too much data. We’re in the early stages of researching and are open to different tools. I mentioned Backstage because it already contains a lot of the attributes we want for our engineering audience. Spot on re: RBAC and different views for different user groups.
t
I had this issue at my old company, I noticed that non-devs also need to be able to know "who owns what", for example support need to find which team to go to when an issue occurs. I ended up building www.whoowns.bot which makes your service catalog available in slack and combines the most common questions into 1 query. Eg. whos oncall, what channel, the team members and if theyre within working hrs etc. Feel free to use it, happy to answer any questions. 🙂
j
thank you so much @topaz t. having it in slack definitely makes the catalogue more accessible.
r
You are right @Joanne Lung - the trick isn't only in the tool - it's in a product-thinking based approach to the portal. thinking of "jobs to be done" - what does the user need and why. we call it a portal-as-product approach
j
is anyone aware if i should raise this topic in another channel(s) to get input?
t
I messaged Luca (admin) to see if theres an appropriate place to discuss service catalogs, lets see what he says. Are you looking for more input or do you feel like your question has been left unanswered?
r
Hi @topaz t and @Joanne Lung here is some of the thinking about this at Port: • Managers would want to ◦ address cost management ◦ manage production readiness and code quality ◦ drive security and compliance (all using scorecards, of course) • SRE teams ◦ need a single source of truth ◦ keep track of compliance with standards • Devsecops need to ◦ appsec posture management • Developers ◦ on call and incident management using the catalog ◦ understand k8s in context ◦ see and manage internal APIs • Product manager ◦ Manage feature flags ◦ Understand and manage APIs ◦ provision envs to test new features
@Joanne Lung we actually wrote about it in our blog but i want to respect the community rules and therefore not posting
j
Hey @Joanne Lung - Here is a Notion template you can use to start mapping your users and their respective users stories. Hope that'll help!
j
Hi @Roni Floman, I’ll DM you to ask if you’re happy to share the blog with me
Hi @Jenny Salem, thanks so much for sharing this template. We have an external facing Developer Portal for our Public APIs. I guess we can consider an internal facing one. Any tips on how to make this user friendly to our non-technical audience?
j
Hi @Joanne Lung, can you elaborate? Who is the non technical audience? And is your external facing API dev portal for documentation purposes? What tool do you use?
j
Hi @Jenny Salem, we’re not looking for an external facing Developer Portal, we have that already. I’m looking for a solution to set up a Product Catalogue of our Platform services/products. It should be accessible to non-Engineers like Product Managers, Delivery, Support as well as Engineers. The audience is internal to the company. A lot of our technical metadata is available in Backstage.
Thanks very much @topaz t I’m new to this forum so I wasn’t sure if the General channel is the right place to tap into, or if there’s a more appropriate channel. This audience has been very helpful in sharing your knowledge. ❤️ ty
I messaged Luca (admin) to see if theres an appropriate place to discuss service catalogs, lets see what he says.
Are you looking for more input or do you feel like your question has been left unanswered?
k
Joanne, I am back from vacation - so if you are interested, we can meet and I can share what we did with Jira Insight :)
t
@Joanne Lung he recommended using #platform-tech
j
thank you @Krzysztof H., i’ll DM you to arrange
thanks very much @topaz t, appreciate your effort