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#general
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# general
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P.A.C. Delory

11/05/2022, 10:57 PM
I really don't like the message that platform engineering kills DevOps. I don't know why anyone is pushing it. And yet, here we go again: https://www.cncf.io/blog/2022/11/02/is-platform-engineering-putting-an-end-to-devops-and-sre/ For the record: I wrote the Gartner research that is quoted in this post. I did not say platform engineering replaces DevOps/SRE, and in fact I don't believe that's true.
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Arie Heinrich

11/06/2022, 1:59 AM
Platform engineering doesn't kill devops. Anyone pushing this just wants to sell something. Platform engineers still use devops methodology, framework and ideas, same as SREs (which we wouldnt even use if Google didnt push this to make sure it has enough employees for the next 30+ years). I think in many places, our industry mixes roles and mentality. Plus click baits are always working. Problem is that by organizing this, people think its the truth and worse, people that make decisions follow like sheep. I sometimes think its the rebound from imposter syndrome.
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VB

11/06/2022, 10:18 AM
because marketing people are better at marketing than IT people.
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Aleksandr Ptakhin

11/06/2022, 10:27 AM
Does it only marketing? Or we also are very busy to learn and go deeper to base concepts. Because it requires more time and we have to work our tasks, families and hobbies. In this case we see any simple pill will look like the solution of any problems. But it won't really
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VB

11/06/2022, 11:00 AM
we have to either get better at marketing or attract marketing people on our side who do not have selling crap as only their interest
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Hugo Pinheiro

11/06/2022, 3:24 PM
The author of that blogpost confused themselves a bit several times, although they understood the fundamental message but "marketing is going to market 😂" one thing that I have noticed is companies pushing this kind of message are always selling some kind of platform, I wouldn't even be mad if it was a good platform but most of them always end up being some kind of paas that you can't modify and ends up being something you got no visibility into, this one even ends up using Jenkins 🤮, but yes these kind of posts are getting annoying.
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P.A.C. Delory

11/06/2022, 9:54 PM
Yes. This blogpost comes from Mia, and the piece in the New Stack came from Humanitec--both companies that are trying to sell you a platform. That's not a coincidence. I'm not worried that engineers or architects will buy the "platform engineering replaces DevOps" line. They know better. But the C-suite might not. I'm concerned that organizations whose DevOps initiatives failed (almost certainly because of corporate culture/politics) will flock to platform engineering as "the new DevOps" or the solution to their problems, without realizing that the same corporate politics that doomed DevOps are also going to be a huge problem for platform engineering.
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Sean O'Dell

11/06/2022, 10:59 PM
The irony of this entire thread considering who "runs" this platform engineering slack.
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P.A.C. Delory

11/06/2022, 11:07 PM
Much like Elon Musk, I'm testing the limits of free speech on social media platforms. Still here so far.
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Sean O'Dell

11/06/2022, 11:09 PM
@VB @Hugo Pinheiro @P.A.C. Delory I work for a company that provides (sells) a Platform that happens to be utilized by DevOps teams, SRE teams, Platform teams, and Application Developers. Our goal is to meet organizations where they are at and help them progress in the best direction! Among many other things. 🙂
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Hugo Pinheiro

11/06/2022, 11:44 PM
Ohh I'm not opposed at all to the selling of platforms, but let's say I was in consulting, I would be looking at the messaging being put out there by that company, and then the most important part is it a black box or can I customize things under the hood, is it modular and can I switch things for other things ie: I'm a big fan of https://kubefirst.io/ but at the same time I'm not opposed to a paas like https://porter.run/ they all have their uses depending where a company is in their journey.
In terms of humanitec running the slack well it's supposed to be a neutral ground 😂
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Damian Keska

11/07/2022, 10:27 AM
For me killing the DevOps means specialization in Platform Engineering/SRE/etc which is a part of DevOps culture. I hope that this change will get rid of all bullshit "DevOps" role offers, where the candidates are expected to be an orchestra-man.
Recently I was helping the recruitment team internally on how to interpret a candidate profile and requirements from the client to know if the required skills are for SRE, PE, Cloud Engineer, etc. This shows how generic the "DevOps" is and how urgently it needs to be precised.
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Michael W

11/07/2022, 1:32 PM
I feel maybe the title of this article is somewhat clickbait, but IMHO DevOps has been an overloaded term for many years now, and has many many misinterpretations. SRE seems to be at risk of going the same way. C-Suite execs are always susceptible to shiny new things (buzzwords), and if this discussion creates an exec mandate to embrace the platform engineering mindset and build internal developer platform(s) - that would not be the worst possible outcome? Unlikely that someone would ever say ‘stop doing DevOps’?
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VB

11/07/2022, 1:33 PM
The risk is its going to be sold and understood totally wrong to benefit the marketing.
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Mo

11/08/2022, 6:50 AM
Same, I also run away from these type of discussions... the amount of time some people spend trying to "define" devops vs sre vs platform!! lol, what's the point?! Half of the issue is techies who think one title is more trendy than last years trendy job-title, the other half is clueless employers or recruiters who read a random 5-min article on LinkedIn and walk into the office that morning saying "Let's implement this!"
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