https://platformengineering.org logo
Join Slack
Powered by
This message was deleted.
# platform-leadership
s
This message was deleted.
j
the answer is likely specific to your organization, culture, team composition and current functional and non-functional requirements
there are different ends of the spectrum
k
In our org where we have both dev-enablement and platform SRE teams, the dev enablement teams work on anything related to self-servicing applications deployed on the platform. This also includes spinning up new clusters, etc. The platform team makes sure all of the platforms run. The Platform team responds to all incidents related to the platform itself, where the dev-enablement team responds to all incidents for workloads running on the platform. Essentially if it doesn't come installed on a "vanilla" platform install it's not the platform team's responsibility. The platform team builds applications and tooling that makes managing the platform easier and makes the platform more stable. The dev-enablement team builds applications and tooling that allows devs to build and deploy their own applications on their own terms. They also monitor the applications that those devs build.
j
if you can give me a little bit more context around any of the above and what you are trying to solve for, i can probably help further
kirk, we are setup very similarly. we just choose to call dev enablement SRE in the example above
the platform team(s) also build and maintain their own tools, however, especially if they help with overall component enablement / self-service consumption
t
I suppose, we use Azure and the dev enablement team wants to build a tool that makes spinning up a k8s cluster with better experience. In this case, does dev enablement team handles AKS or the platform team?
j
i would approach this user story as such: let said team build and explore the tool of choice they want. if there is value add for other groups and this path becomes more popular, let them donate the implementation back to the core platform team so it can be a part of the default offering
if you want to dig deeper, i would try to understand what the current gap around provisioning and the associated UX/workflow from their perspective is
t
Our platform team currently manages the AKS and Azure. The development team dependent on the platform team for environments. So I suppose a use case, where the dev enablement team would want to spinning up a cluster via self serve mode, does the enablement team asks platform team to do it or enablement team manages the AKS?
j
a common question which is a cultural one that every organization needs to make for all of its technology teams
it really comes down to which flavor of SRE do you want to support in your environment? do you prefer amazon’s “you build it, you run it” or the google SRE model where SRE owns the production run time
there are some hybrids to this but it really it’s down to those two options
when i say SRE here, that’s developer enablement in your example above
either option is valid, each has a pro and con
t
I understand, but that doesnt fullfil the purpose of enablement team nor helps the devs for self service.
Its a tricky I believe where the platform team may feel that they dont manage AKS anymore and feel more of customer support of Azure for AKS
j
fwiw, the enablement team, if you need one, gets you closer to the google SRE model
with amazon’s model, you won’t have said enablement team in the first place
this may be worth a look if you haven’t seen it - https://web.devopstopologies.com/
t
I tend to see more of you build, you run it mode where the enablement team enables the capabilities of ownership of the AKS
j
when you say capabilities, what are some examples
i am trying to make sure i am following and understanding the nomenclature used without making assumptions. those are always tricky and good to confirm in meta topics like this one
t
Capabilities in turn depends on the team skills. For example, if a team has knowledge around Terraform, providing modules of k8s (with all the desired elements) to provision the cluster could enable the team to provision environments. Ofcs, part of it involves advocacy.
j
if it’s terraform modules, the platform team should write and provide “no code” versions of those for teams to simply populate with a set of values and instantiate
t
But the platform team here could be very opinionated and how would they know whats the no code version for the different teams in the org?
j
less is more. start with the leanest set of options and see if there are user stories / demand to make this more advanced
you could also provide multiple flavors of each
i’d personally gate it to 3 of each kind, one for each type of user persona trying to use the modules
you may end up needing to support more but it’s rare to see more than 3 from what i’ve seen
best way to confirm is tracking actual deployments with data so you can see which ones are the most requested and by whom
t
So what you are saying is, for this case, if both enablement and platform team exists, its better that platform team handles this?
j
yes. that said, my frame of mind is that the platform should be open for others to contribute to, e.g. enablement/SRE teams are a valued “customer” of the platform who can also contribute to it by extending it or modifying it
we can all win together
t
Agreed, I suppose, the enablement team can collaborate with both devs and platform team to shape up the tf module and in turn manage it. And let the AKS still be in platform remit but make informed changes as necessary
j
yeah, that’s a good outcome. if you want, you can probably try to take this example and start a discussion around these types of decisions and contributions in general
that way, you set up and enhance the culture across groups regardless of components and/or user story / opportunity at hand
i am thinking a matrix as a data presentation around ownership and enablement here
t
Yep, I am keen for the enablement team to focus on the remit for the tools developed from the platform
That matrix is a good shout
j
i wish i could share the one i am looking at but it has too much proprietary stuff in it so i really can’t
i am doing my best using words
t
No worries, thanks
Open in Slack
PreviousNext
Powered by