# general

Omer Kahani

04/28/2022, 1:14 PM
Engineering Standards Do you have engineering standards, are you starting with developing them, or they are created to after mass adoption?

Lennard Berger

04/28/2022, 1:17 PM
could you be a little bit more specific with your question?

Omer Kahani

04/28/2022, 1:22 PM
I can try 🙂 two examples for standards can be: 1. Use CircleCI for CI 2. Use ngnix ingress (k8s) for all ingress traffic Does your organization have writing standards the everyone must follow?

Alan Barr

04/28/2022, 1:22 PM
We use a ADR board, its kinda a mess but good enough
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Lennard Berger

04/28/2022, 1:28 PM
I see, yeah not really. We’re trying to pretty much follow coding standards, including above all, no-code = ideal (the less the better)
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Because every LOC costs you money, in the end 🙂

Szymon Rzepka

04/28/2022, 1:35 PM
@Omer Kahani it depends on the standard. Coding standards are agreed upon and decided at the team level. Teams expect to be given an environment to develop services, CI, deployments, etc. They wouldn’t think of doing everything on their own from the beginning. It’s a waste of time :) The environment into which services are deployed (microservice world) enforces a particular way of deployment and the rules you must meet to deploy. Some things are also processed through batch changes.
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Johannes Würbach

04/28/2022, 1:46 PM
I really like the golden path approach, meaning you have one, documented!, way to solve common problems and those paths are becoming the de facto standard. If new services are bootstrapped with CircleCI out of the box, it is fairly likely that developers will stay on this path. One benefit is that this feels less prescriptive and still allows experimentation, so teams fell involved and your engineering org can iterate on your paths.

Andrew Fong

04/28/2022, 2:09 PM
standards should come from principles, good leadership starts with principles
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i would recommend never starting with tech standards otherwise everything is a point decision.
every line of code not witten is also opportunity cost lost
it's innovation vs execution

Omer Kahani

04/28/2022, 3:34 PM
@Johannes Würbach & @Andrew Fong I agree with the golden path approach, and also think the product should be used in platform. For my it suggests that standard are problematic, as they are a way to force things, and we don't want to force a product on the customer. I wanted to see if there are other thoughts 🙂


04/28/2022, 4:49 PM
So my take is what I call "standardization by design". You do not want to abstract the user but give them higher level options that are convenient while also giving them the full context of what's happening under the hood. Sounds vague, let me be more specific: • Rather than exposing people to a full blown helm chart you give them an even higher level file. • You define a baseline helm chart that's empty but containing defaults such as CPU allocation etc. • You're dynamically creating the final config from a combination. The result is less cognitive load (team only needs to deal with the higher level file), standardization (you can drive that through the baselines) as well as abstraction without abstracting, because the team still has the full context.
The pure idea of just telling devs to do it exactly this way is one I've not seen work in reality that much. You want to give them friendly nudges. There's too much demand for devs in the market...